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== Identity Fraud ==
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:> She has spent decades grifting as indigenous and stolen much in grants, jobs and awards from real indigenous people.
:This is opinion, not a fact.
: It should also be noted that you didn't provide a citation for her being Hungarian. As far as I'm aware, even the Walrus didn't claim that, so I'd be interested to see where you got this from.[[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 00:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)▼
::She has no belonging to indigenous nations or community. Her family is all non indigenous as far back as five generations as stated in the article. It was verified. The only not fact is Jani stating she is indigenous and people like yourself believing she has the right to do so. She does not. Her claim doesn’t make it truth. She is Hungarian an her mothers side I’ve seen her again verified ancestry records. Also yes read the article again Jani admits to not being a Métis, and says that is just what everyone said in the past when they didn’t know which indigenous they were. I would like to speak to another editor on that matter is not one of her friends. There is no reason why I an actual Métis person needs to spend my time arguing with someone who is not even reading properly my very valid complaint [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 01:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)▼
::Also I’m pretty sure I’ve seen your comments under that same name acesevenfire on Reddit defending Jani as well. There has to be a policy against this? I’m not looking to get into a debate with a Jani fan I am looking for real accountably on a very important issue that I will state again is a crime [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 01:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)▼
:::> There is no reason why I an actual Métis person needs to spend my time arguing with someone who is not even reading properly my very valid complaint▼
:::I don't see how you being Métis is relevant here. Being Métis doesn't make you immune to espousing colonialist viewpoints any more than someone being Black makes them immune to espousing racist viewpoints.▼
:::> She is Hungarian an her mothers side I’ve seen her again verified ancestry records.▼
:::If you'd like to include them in the article with proper citations, feel free to.▼
:::> Also I’m pretty sure I’ve seen your comments under that same name acesevenfire on Reddit defending Jani as well. There has to be a policy against this?▼
:::As far as I'm aware, there is no policy prohibiting consistent viewpoints.▼
:::> I would like to speak to another editor on that matter is not one of her friends.▼
:::If this is the precursor to some sort of legal threat, I refer you to [[WP:THREAT]].▼
:::> I’m not looking to get into a debate with a Jani fan▼
:::And yet you have decided to debate anyway. This is a wiki, not a soapbox; we deal in facts supported by evidence, not opinions supported by colonialist ideology. [[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 01:47, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Racism is systemic. A black person cannot be racist. Your viewpoints are not accurate on matter like racism but you state them as facts. A black person can hold and uphold discriminatory beliefs and practices not racism in your analogy. Jani is a Caucasian person in a position of power who uses that power to bully and silence indigenous people. That is erasure. My Métis ancestry matters because this issue directly effects me as an indigenous person who experiences the harm/racism of identity fraud, and as a Métis person I can speak to Métis cultural practices and ways of being and belonging. A person who does not belong to the culture in this case-Métis, has no authority to speak for the nation to which I belong, and as identity is a nations to decide it has the upmost importance that I speak, share, and educate to the counter. I never made a legal threat I made a valid comment about how I have attempted at great length to have my valid issue be responded to in a professional fashion, your bias in this issue has not afforded that ask. Your attempt to inflate my request and gaslight me as making legal threats is not appropriate. I also cannot edit the news article? And to imply as such is very concerning? I am not Michelle cyca and to state I may be demonstrates you have not read the article thoroughly in which she states her indigenous ancestry as not Metis. I also cannot provide you with somebody else’s personal information like Janis family tree and to suggest that I do here is coaxing me into committing a crime, her personal information is here to share. There is a professional standard for which all this information must be processed through. Her ancestry has been verified at the walrus as not indigenous, it is not up for debate but still I am here arguing with you who refuses to read words. Also for you to claim I am espousing colonial practices by referring to her family’s birth records of all non indigenous people, a national article written by a well respected indigenous professional inner field which includes Janis own admission about not being Métis-again my complaint is specific to remove Métis, and for me to have offered my cultural information and education on the matter and be shot down by you is deeply deeply unaligned. Jani does not belong to any indigenous communities or nations, she does not belong to the Métis people, no people claim her. Indigenous people are telling you this, they told the world this and your argument is they are espousing colonial nonsense? This is an indigenous way of being and relating. It is also very inappropriate for you to be discounting my Métis knowledge and support on the matter when you yourself have no business either than to listen and learn on a matter you have no lived experience or knowledge regarding. You are in fact turning this into a soapbox but your constant dismissal of my valid concerns and voice are indicative of a bigger problem- colonial violence. [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 17:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)▼
:::::> Racism is systemic. A black person cannot be racist.▼
:::::Systemic racism is not in conflict with individual racism.▼
:::::> My Métis ancestry matters because this issue directly effects me as an indigenous person who experiences the harm/racism of identity fraud, and as a Métis person I can speak to Métis cultural practices and ways of being and belonging.▼
:::::And what of Jani Lauzon? Is she not entitled to her identity because you decide she isn't?
:::::> Also for you to claim I am espousing colonial practices by referring to her family’s birth records of all non indigenous people, a national article written by a well respected indigenous professional inner field which includes Janis own admission about not being Métis-again my complaint is specific to remove Métis, and for me to have offered my cultural information and education on the matter and be shot down by you is deeply deeply unaligned.
:::::Cite it, then. If you can provide citations, you're more than welcome to provide this information.
:::::> I also cannot provide you with somebody else’s personal information like Janis family tree and to suggest that I do here is coaxing me into committing a crime, her personal information is here to share.▼
:::::If you can't share that information, that's fine, but we also can't take your word for it.▼
:::::> It is also very inappropriate for you to be discounting my Métis knowledge and support on the matter when you yourself have no business either than to listen and learn on a matter you have no lived experience or knowledge regarding.▼
:::::I am not Roman Catholic and do not believe that anyone has the capability to speak [[ex cathedra]] on any matter. Your Métis identity is not a cudgel with which you may beat people who disagree with you. [[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 17:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)▼
::::::Thank you 🙏🏽 for that additional
::::::comment from the new voice! Yes the burden is on Jani to prove she is. The article clearly states she is not Métis under her own admission. Remove Métis. I am not beating anyone with this request, I am making a formal request that the facts you so proudly declare are your values be upheld. She is not Métis-fact. Again I have not accused you of bludgeoning anyone here, keep it professional please. We speak in facts here. Jani is not Métis and doesnt not belong to Métis nations-fact. [[Special:Contributions/2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803|2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803]] ([[User talk:2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803|talk]]) 18:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::If you are dealing with 'facts' then lay out the evidence that proves she is Indigenous. NOT including a dna test that shows a small percentage as this is not enough evidence to prove connection to community. [[Special:Contributions/174.93.47.244|174.93.47.244]] ([[User talk:174.93.47.244|talk]]) 18:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::> If you are dealing with 'facts' then lay out the evidence that proves she is Indigenous.
:::::It is on the person making the claim that she ''isn't'' Indigenous to prove it. The Walrus article has not proved it, since it did not show it. The CBC article on Buffy Sainte-Marie, as far as I recall, ''did'' show the actual evidence.
:::::> NOT including a dna test that shows a small percentage as this is not enough evidence to prove connection to community.
:::::This is a circular argument that usually loops back to "we don't claim her" and that I'm not interested in entertaining. If you have citations indicating that she isn't Indigenous (as distinct from "she is accused of not being Indigenous"), add it to the article. [[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 18:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::Whether your interested in entertaining or not does not give you the right to discount indigenous practices like who claims her as illegitimate, while at the same time I’ll add your arguing that relying on colonial records like who her ancestors are is espousing colonial
::::::nonsense? Pick a side, when it suits your argument which is just your point of view you say one thing opposite to the thing you stated earlier. We get it. You’re a friend of Janis who feels they need to defend her. That is not what wiki is for, start a fan page for her that is where that is appropriate. Not wiki. Again, she is not Métis that is a proven fact. Remove the listing. [[Special:Contributions/2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803|2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803]] ([[User talk:2605:8D80:405:9DAD:EDD6:3EED:B476:B803|talk]]) 19:10, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
::::::FACT: she claims that she is indigenous on her fathers side. FACT: census proves he has zero Indigenous ancestry going back 5 generations. That's going back reaaaaal far....pre Indian Act. Therefore she is not Indigenous and should not be collecting grant money for indigenous people. It's all well and good if she wants to claim Indigenous identity, but NOT when she is STEALING grant money for Indigenous artists and taking up space for Indigenous voices.
::::::My grandfather's grandma is Ojibwe. The census shows she is Irish but there is no birth certificate and she randomly pops up in a methodist family where they were taking young Ojibwe girls from their home and assimilating them. We have lots of evidence including photo evidence of this.
::::::If Jani is Indigenous, why is there no proof. Why isn’t she presenting the evidence that her father is Indigenous. She even HIRED a geneologist and still nothing. Come on now. You're grasping at straws here. [[Special:Contributions/174.93.47.244|174.93.47.244]] ([[User talk:174.93.47.244|talk]]) 22:41, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
▲It should also be noted that you didn't provide a citation for her being Hungarian. As far as I'm aware, even the Walrus didn't claim that, so I'd be interested to see where you got this from.[[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 00:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
▲:She has no belonging to indigenous nations or community. Her family is all non indigenous as far back as five generations as stated in the article. It was verified. The only not fact is Jani stating she is indigenous and people like yourself believing she has the right to do so. She does not. Her claim doesn’t make it truth. She is Hungarian an her mothers side I’ve seen her again verified ancestry records. Also yes read the article again Jani admits to not being a Métis, and says that is just what everyone said in the past when they didn’t know which indigenous they were. I would like to speak to another editor on that matter is not one of her friends. There is no reason why I an actual Métis person needs to spend my time arguing with someone who is not even reading properly my very valid complaint [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 01:09, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
▲::Also I’m pretty sure I’ve seen your comments under that same name acesevenfire on Reddit defending Jani as well. There has to be a policy against this? I’m not looking to get into a debate with a Jani fan I am looking for real accountably on a very important issue that I will state again is a crime [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 01:12, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
I have edited the article to reflect what the available sources ''actually say''. Participants new to Wikipedia are advised to read [[WP:BLP]], [[WP:AGF]], [[WP:V]] and [[WP:OR]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 19:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
▲::> There is no reason why I an actual Métis person needs to spend my time arguing with someone who is not even reading properly my very valid complaint
▲::I don't see how you being Métis is relevant here. Being Métis doesn't make you immune to espousing colonialist viewpoints any more than someone being Black makes them immune to espousing racist viewpoints.
▲::> She is Hungarian an her mothers side I’ve seen her again verified ancestry records.
▲::If you'd like to include them in the article with proper citations, feel free to.
▲::> Also I’m pretty sure I’ve seen your comments under that same name acesevenfire on Reddit defending Jani as well. There has to be a policy against this?
▲::As far as I'm aware, there is no policy prohibiting consistent viewpoints.
▲::> I would like to speak to another editor on that matter is not one of her friends.
▲::If this is the precursor to some sort of legal threat, I refer you to [[WP:THREAT]].
:I think the issue here was that our lead was trying to state her ethnicity, but that is not our usual approach to biographies of living people. And yes I agree with Andy, newcomers, we have a lot of rules that you should probably peruse before commenting :) [[User:CaptainEek|<b style="color:#6a1f7f">CaptainEek</b>]] <sup>[[User talk:CaptainEek|<i style="font-size:82%; color:#a479e5">Edits Ho Cap'n!</i>]]</sup>[[Special:Contributions/CaptainEek|⚓]] 20:27, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
▲::> I’m not looking to get into a debate with a Jani fan
::
▲:::Racism is systemic. A black person cannot be racist. Your viewpoints are not accurate on matter like racism but you state them as facts. A black person can hold and uphold discriminatory beliefs and practices not racism in your analogy. Jani is a Caucasian person in a position of power who uses that power to bully and silence indigenous people. That is erasure. My Métis ancestry matters because this issue directly effects me as an indigenous person who experiences the harm/racism of identity fraud, and as a Métis person I can speak to Métis cultural practices and ways of being and belonging. A person who does not belong to the culture in this case-Métis, has no authority to speak for the nation to which I belong, and as identity is a nations to decide it has the upmost importance that I speak, share, and educate to the counter. I never made a legal threat I made a valid comment about how I have attempted at great length to have my valid issue be responded to in a professional fashion, your bias in this issue has not afforded that ask. Your attempt to inflate my request and gaslight me as making legal threats is not appropriate. I also cannot edit the news article? And to imply as such is very concerning? I am not Michelle cyca and to state I may be demonstrates you have not read the article thoroughly in which she states her indigenous ancestry as not Metis. I also cannot provide you with somebody else’s personal information like Janis family tree and to suggest that I do here is coaxing me into committing a crime, her personal information is here to share. There is a professional standard for which all this information must be processed through. Her ancestry has been verified at the walrus as not indigenous, it is not up for debate but still I am here arguing with you who refuses to read words. Also for you to claim I am espousing colonial practices by referring to her family’s birth records of all non indigenous people, a national article written by a well respected indigenous professional inner field which includes Janis own admission about not being Métis-again my complaint is specific to remove Métis, and for me to have offered my cultural information and education on the matter and be shot down by you is deeply deeply unaligned. Jani does not belong to any indigenous communities or nations, she does not belong to the Métis people, no people claim her. Indigenous people are telling you this, they told the world this and your argument is they are espousing colonial nonsense? This is an indigenous way of being and relating. It is also very inappropriate for you to be discounting my Métis knowledge and support on the matter when you yourself have no business either than to listen and learn on a matter you have no lived experience or knowledge regarding. You are in fact turning this into a soapbox but your constant dismissal of my valid concerns and voice are indicative of a bigger problem- colonial violence. [[Special:Contributions/135.12.162.209|135.12.162.209]] ([[User talk:135.12.162.209|talk]]) 17:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
▲::::> Racism is systemic. A black person cannot be racist.
▲::::Systemic racism is not in conflict with individual racism.
▲::::> My Métis ancestry matters because this issue directly effects me as an indigenous person who experiences the harm/racism of identity fraud, and as a Métis person I can speak to Métis cultural practices and ways of being and belonging.
▲::::> I also cannot provide you with somebody else’s personal information like Janis family tree and to suggest that I do here is coaxing me into committing a crime, her personal information is here to share.
▲::::If you can't share that information, that's fine, but we also can't take your word for it.
▲::::> It is also very inappropriate for you to be discounting my Métis knowledge and support on the matter when you yourself have no business either than to listen and learn on a matter you have no lived experience or knowledge regarding.
▲::::I am not Roman Catholic and do not believe that anyone has the capability to speak [[ex cathedra]] on any matter. Your Métis identity is not a cudgel with which you may beat people who disagree with you. [[User:AceSevenFive|AceSevenFive]] ([[User talk:AceSevenFive|talk]]) 17:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
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