This page is an archive and its contents should be preserved in their current form;
any comments regarding this page should be directed to Template talk:In the news. Thanks.
I tried to see what it looks like, using Show Preview, and it basically shows an unidentifiable man holding up a white, barely legible sign. I believe it should be instantly clear what the ITN picture is about. This picture doesn't make it clear right away. AecisBrievenbus16:02, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is more important in terms of impact and significance than than a tropical storm or an elderly clam, should be considered. EtTuMercader
I don't see the significance of something like this. I see how it affects Americans, but how does this affect Canada or the UK? I think there is alot more interest in a tropical storm then this. --Plasma Twa 203:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It effects everyone because of the international nature of finance and economics. The housing market bubble collapse and the subsequent credit crunch, which started in the U.S., has started a worldwide economic downturn. This change intends to reverse that. Take a look at the Asian financial crisis for a good example of how an economic problem in one country, even a smaller one like Thailand can have huge ramificatons around the globe. Economics might not be as flashy as a storm, but it is of much greater importance and, conceivably, interest. And if interest is to trump importance, than I think we are missing some important celebrity news that arguably more people would be interested in. EtTuMercader
Is there anything particularly special about this interest rate change? Central banks regularly change interest rates in many countries. According to Federal Reserve System, the US Federal Reserve has changed them at least 30 times since 2001. Bistromathic10:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's the second cut after a dizzying series of rate hikes. Besides the ripple effects throughout the global financial system of rate changes in U.S. market, the new Fed chairman is still under the skeptical eye of the financial community after the departure of Saint Alan. While the first rate cut was definitely ITN worthy, this second is marginal. Unfortunately, the relevant 'update' is a badly-formatted unreferenced sentence that gives no context both for the rationale and the effects. - BanyanTree10:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you understand it's importance, as you obviously do, but think the phrasing is so badly lacking why don't you come up with something yourself? I chose a short and simple sentence from the newsfeed because while I wanted to limit the size of the item because it is less important than the first rate cut but still important enough to include. Besides, most explanations aren't going to be able to explain the cause, effects, or importance of this to a person without at least a little background in economics and knowledge of the recent credit crunch. EtTuMercader
Definite include; this sort of thing has major impacts globally, especially given the current situation. Unfortunately, I don't know enough finance to even begin to make it sound coherent, accurate, and NPOV. • Lawrence Cohen04:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You misunderstand. Your original hook was fine. However, ITN is not a news ticker. A person wondering "so what?" must be able to click the bolded link and find the "what". The article is not sufficiently updated to inform a reader about the context of the ITN hook. The article Federal Reserve System has no context for the rate hike and, worse, it has no references. Expand and source the article, not your suggested hook. - BanyanTree08:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I assume the mediawiki job queue just happens to be long. The job queue handles some of the consequences of an edit, such as updating pages which include a changed template. This is done not done immediately when the edit is made because sometimes thousands of pages need to be updated, but will be done eventually. You can see the job queue length at special:statistics. You can force a page to be updated immediately by loading it with &purge=true, in this case [2]. Thue | talk18:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just a follow up to note that I am replacing International Federation of Association Football by Fédération Internationale de Football Association, per WP:ERROR. -- lucasbfrtalk14:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The historical precedent is that the most important championship in the world for any well-known sport automatically qualifies for ITN inclusion even if that championship is of limited geographic scope. Dragons flight15:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If it helps as well, the Red Sox, like the Yankees and certain other teams, are functionally 'regional' teams, with substantially larger followings than most small-market teams. Arguably, the Red Sox may have the largest fanbase geographically of any baseball team in the world. And between this and the clam story, New England apparently owns ITN right now. • Lawrence Cohen16:24, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I realy hope you're being sarcastic, Preston. It has two different countries in it, and one of them dominates much more than the other. And in regards to Dragons flight comment - the AFL grand final did not get put up, even though the AFL primership is, in your words, "the most important championship in the world for any well-known sport [Australian football]".
Geelong Football Club#Current playing list doesn't specify the nationalities of the team members - I'd assume they're all Aussies. In contrast, BoSox has 2 Japanese, 2 Canadians, 3 Puerto Ricans, 4 players from the Dominican Republic, etc. In addition, the World Series was big in Japan, especially since Dice-K became the first Japanese pitcher to Win a WS game. And it's the top prize in club baseball, maybe even in all of baseball. --HowardtheDuck12:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument is flawed - three of your countries listed are very geographically close, except for Japan (they're crazy about baseball too, though). I don't have any problem with having this on the main page, BUT I do think that if other similar sport compeitions are knocked back from being on the main page, then this one should be too.
That'll eliminate the possibility of European competitions (especially the Champions League and the H-Cup to be listed at ITN, since they're close to each other - in fact most of them border each other (except for Canada and USA) - as opposed to the North American countries listed above. --HowardtheDuck10:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Researchers from Bangor University determine that a quahog clam was aged between 405 and 410 years, making it the longest-lived animal on record.
Posted. Note that this story seems rather marginal in terms of international note, but the template desperately needs updates after several days of stagnation. Others may disagree with its inclusion. But thanks for your suggestion, BanyanTree03:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
An unnamed member of the British royal family is blackmailed amidst allegations of engaging in unscrupulous activities such as drug use, and sex, which has allegedly been caught on tape. 2 suspects have been taken into police custody. Obviously this needs revision
Kirchner has claimed victory (and media outlets have called it in her favour); if that's enough to post, I'd suggest going ahead. Radagast02:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
According to the Results section, over 96% of the votes has been counted, with Cristina Fernández de Kirchner scoring 44% of the votes. I don't know if this means that she will become the next president (American presidential election model) or that she qualifies for a second round, along with #2 Elisa Carrió (French presidential election model). AFAIK, that would be a world first, btw, two women in a presidential election runoff. AecisBrievenbus17:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've found the answer to my question: "there must be a second round if no formula gets more than 45% of the affirmative valid votes, or more than 40% of the affirmative valid votes with a difference of 10 percentage points from the second formula, in quantity of affirmative valid votes." Since Fernández de Kirchner is about 20% ahead of Carrió, she needs 40% of the votes to become the next president of Argentina. She's at 44.88% at the moment, so this would make her the next president. AecisBrievenbus17:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This directly affects barely 1,000 people. Should it really be on ITN? We wouldn't put it up if a municipality of 1,000 in Ohio adopted a home-rule charter. -- Mwalcoff02:12, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The equivalent would be the municipality being given the right to secede from the US, and holding a vote on whether to do so. I think that would make headlines around the world.-gadfium05:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, we should also place a blurb that the electorate was barely a thousand. It would seem that the referendum was very close, when it isn't. --HowardtheDuck08:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to say that. Sixteen votes is close, but it's more spectacular when it happens in Florida during the US presidential election on an electorate of a few million, than in Tokelau on an electorate of less than 1,000. AecisBrievenbus10:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
On October 23–24 Comet 17/P Holmes unexpectedly brightened by about 500,000 times becoming a naked eye object in the night sky. Only about 175 stars are brighter, see [3]. Not sure how to word this but I thought I would post the suggestion as such an event has broad international appeal and newsworthiness. IvoShandor05:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I second the motion, except it should probably be "On October 23–24 Comet 17/P Holmes unexpectedly brightened by about 500,000 times, becoming a naked eye object in the night sky. Only 175 stars are brighter." I added a comma and dropped the external link. Daniel Bush19:01, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I like that one, I was pretty tired when I posted that so any tweaks are greatly appreciated. I just posted the link to show it had received some coverage and didn't mean for it to be included. :) IvoShandor02:23, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure on the 500,000, that's what spaceweather.com said in their emails.
I'm not sure it's too late, but I'm reluctant for another reason. If we post this, we will have three space-related items on ITN: STS-120, Chang'e 1 and 17P/Holmes. I think that's a bit too much. AecisBrievenbus11:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, just nice to finally hear back from someone, it was only a suggestion. Though, I would submit that the comet article has a much broader international appeal than the other two space related articles. No problem though. IvoShandor11:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not quite; that was IMHO not important as this. That was just when the Constitutional Draft was adopted. The Parliament unilaterally (but without opposition presence) proclaimed the Constitution formally yesterday. --PaxEquilibrium19:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then the previous ITN hook's wording was misleading. In any case, this is not noteworthy enough to be posted twice and I oppose its inclusion. - BanyanTree19:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The actual wording could use rephrasing, but this at least should be considered. The game takes place next Sunday, but I see no reason why the discussion on including it can't start now. SashaCall(Sign!)/(Talk!)18:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really see why this should be put up, I don't think its really going to have any significance. Didnt the NFL already try to have a european league that recently crumbled? EtTuMercader
The NFL Europe was intended to make American football more popular in Europe. Although it was a great way for players like Kurt Warner to gain experience, it apparently didn't meet the expectations of the NFL, and the NFL decided to play NFL matches in Europe instead. The match in London (I saw a lot of billboards of this match at the London Underground last week) is the first of this. Having said that, I don't know if this is ITN-worthy. This might be included on Portal:Current events/Sports, but that's about it. AecisBrievenbus20:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not significant enough. The big four leagues are starting to do this more often, and putting this up would mean we would have to put up any time the NHL or NBA played a game in London. --Plasma Twa 223:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Plasma Twa. Sorry, I'm a NFL fan/fellower and just don't consider it "significant" to put in front of Wikipedia. There's not even a "full blown" article devoted to the so-called event. --Souphanousinphone02:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not saying that every time an American league plays a game in abroad, it should be put on here. The first time should be though. I bet if Man U and Arsenal played a game at Lambeau Field, every European here would want it listed. SashaCall(Sign!)/(Talk!)02:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No. If it's the Super Bowl, yes. Since this is a regular season game, then no. Same for Euro teams playing league matches in North America. If it's the FA Cup Final, maybe yes. --HowardtheDuck05:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, the Wembley stadium article doesn't have anything near the update necessary and it's unclear to me it should. While I agree with other's this shouldm't be on ITN anyway, if it did qualify it would need a better article Nil Einne17:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The re-election of Hu Jintao as the General Secretary is not mentioned in the 17th National Congress of the Communist Party of China article. It still says "there is a widespread consensus that Hu Jintao will be confirmed for another term as General Secretary....". Please remove speculations from the encyclopedic article (e.g. ...is expected to remain paramount leader, ... looks set for promotion, ...is expected to take over,...etc.) and replace them with news updates, plus references. Thanks. --PFHLai04:45, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There actually is enough plenty relating to cross border tension, U.S.-Turkey tensions, etc, but the main article, Turkey-PKK conflict, which would be a good place to connect the recent U.S. Congress resolution into the current fighting and Iraq War strategy, requires a massive update. - BanyanTree10:23, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Posted a slightly shortened version. A 'malfunction' ? It's not clear from the article what happened. So I took that part off. --PFHLai03:03, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Theoretically, any, although I think the size of the update is important. In terms of notability, I'd put the Switzerland and Poland elections clearly more important than the other three: Poland is the fifth-largest EU member and the outcome there is of note to the bloc on the whole; Switzerland's election has attracted international attention on account of the black sheep thing. In contrast, Slovenia's presidency is only a ceremonial post, and constitutional revision referendums do go on at a pretty fair clip around the world and can seem fairly meaningless to an outside observer without extensive elaboration as to their relevance. I don't see the Kyrgystani article mustering the level of detail that we'd need; the Turkish article is a bit better. The Tom19:14, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So that would be Switzerland and Poland yes, Turkey maybe and Slovenia and Kyrgyzstan probably not? I think the referendum in Turkey is relevant as well, since adoption of the constitution would for instance introduce an elected presidency. AecisBrievenbus20:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This was up last year, and mentioned both Alonso winning the World Championship and Michael Schumacher retiring. I'm not sure about the year before. AecisBrievenbus09:15, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that McLaren have appealed against the result of the Brazilian GP, or rather against the decision of the race stewards not to disqualify the two Williams cars and the two BMW cars. If the FIA agrees with McLaren and disqualifies the four cars, Lewis Hamilton will move up from P7 to P4 and win the World Drivers Championship. If that happens, I believe we shouldn't mention the F1 world title again. Any thoughts? AecisBrievenbus18:33, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know I've said this in prior cases as well, but Poland is a special case: let's wait for the official results. IIRC the exit polls have always been incorrect since the coming of democracy. AecisBrievenbus21:46, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No official results yet, so we should wait a little longer. However, the PM already conceded defeat. And according to some exit polls, the Civic Platform is close to getting a majority of seats in the Seim. --Camptown23:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. The update is not referenced and the article as a whole is rather confusingly organized, apparently with the lead describing the current constitution and the sections chronologically describing each previous constitution, rather than the lead being a summary of the article body. - BanyanTree09:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, well, the new constitution hasn't been made internet-available if you know what I mean. We can get references to support the new constitution, as there are a few. Pax and I will help rewrite the article in anyway needed. --Prevalis17:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Even so, I've greatly expanded the Constitution of Motenengro article, further updating it. I've included some voting controversies, some controversies involved with the Constitution, a basic overview of what is included in the Constitution and some references with more coming if I can find any. If more is needed to be included in the article, please feel free to contact me. Either way, I'll be working on the article as best as I can. --Prevalis22:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The linked article is currently a redirect. The comment of the edit which turned it into a redirect was I'm reverting back, this treaty has not yet been signed. Thue | talk12:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm dunno about this. I was thinking wait until it's signed but then I thought of something and after checking the article confirmed that indeed it has to be ratified before it takes effect meaning it being signed doesn't really matter. Given this, perhaps post now and if and when it's ratified by all states and/or when it takes effect. Nil Einne13:36, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The way I understand European politics, it's the moment of reaching a political agreement that matters. Then, when signing and ratifying come, the big news comes only if a country changes its mind. So, if indeed there is a certainty in the agreement, now's the time to post. --Cryout13:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Certainly, there will be a formal signing cermony later, followed by a year-long ratification process, but the news is that the EU states after more than 5 years have come to a final agreement. Bondkaka16:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
While i support this in priciple,i think the specific blurb suggested by Josiah Rowe might leave people who aren't as familiar with current events of Pakistan with a feeling of "so what"? While i havent been following this story as closely the last week or so, there was a widespread belief that she would return as a relatively significant member of the Pakistani government to-be. If that is still the case i think that that should perhaps be reflected in the blurb. Thethinredline17:46, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
People may now have been killed. Source: Al Jazeera, based on Pakistani TV. Reports are of two explosions, one leaving ten to twenty bodies. The news is supported by AP, AFP and Reuters. --Cryout19:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely ITN worthy now, i would suggest: "At least 30 people are killed in two explosions in Karachi, Pakistan near a convoy carrying former Prime MinisterBenazir Bhutto, but leaving her unhurt, on the first day of her return to Pakistan following an eight-year exile." Current events and Mrs. Bhutto's article have both been updated. Thethinredline20:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Definently ITN-worthy, however the section in the Benazir Bhutto does not currently inspire confidence. For example it has the sentence "The Pakistani People's Party leader and former Pakistani PM, Bhutto, was shadowed by the Quran during her journey leaving the plane and touching Karachi Airport grounds" until I deleted it. Thue | talk21:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately a lot of articles related to Pakistan covering controversial things appear to have similar issues from those that have been proposed recently. I don't mean stuff about the Quran but contradictary information, outdated speculation (which probably shouldn't have been there in the first place) and blatant POV. Nil Einne13:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely not IMO, I don't see what impact this is going to have or why it's important EtTuMercader
I did hear on NPR this morning the interesting theory from a French correspondent that Mrs. Sarkozy was a major component of his political engine; sort of a Hillary Clinton+10, as she related to Bill Clinton's presidency. The supposition was that the divorce, and losing his major political aide--his wife--would have major ramifications. Ironically, France today is completely shut down by major labor strikes of all transportation and utilities workers because of policy changes Sarkozy is pushing. That is less than 24 hours after the announcement of the divorce. • Lawrence Cohen16:03, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding of the situation between President Sarkozy and his wife was that they had been separated for a long time prior to his election as President, so even if she had been a significant behind the scenes player as Lawrence Cohen suggests, than whatever influences she might have had had long since eroded, and as such would have little effect of any kind on international events or politics in France. I dont think this merits inclusion. Thethinredline18:08, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, while it's true that she appears to still have some behind the scenes role, it's unclear that this is incumbent on her being married to Nicholas. Given that they appear to have been more or less seperated for a while, with her making a cursory appearance at state functions at best, the divorce by common consent seems to be more of formality then a significant move. Perhaps she will greatly lose influence or will change her position/behaviour but this seems crystal bally to me. There's simply no way we can know if this seperation is going to have a great effect. Nil Einne13:52, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No they had been back together after her affair with Richard Attias. They have separated for real only recently, just after their holidays in the US, which was a last attempt. Some key decisions by Sarkozy after his election were desperate moves to please her and keep her : for instance, the PR disaster of spending a few days on a billionaire yacht near Malta right after the election ; or the appointment of Rachida Dati, a long time friend of Cecilia, as Minister of Justice, of David Martinon as spokesman of the Elysée Palace ; on the contrary, the eviction of Laurent Solly, a key campaign member, she didn't like at all, from the Elysee team. I could quote lots of instances. So the Cecilia Affair, as it is now called in France, had a lot of consequences in the recent months. Hektor06:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure about this? The information in the article
A censored article in JDD reported that she did not vote during the second round of the 2007 presidential elections. She did not accompany her husband when he cast his vote (although her two daughters accompanied Nicolas while he voted) or during the vote count, and she left for a two-week holiday in Florida directly before the election day. She missed the crucial two weeks of campaigning directly prior to the second round election for this holiday, even though then-French President Jacques Chirac's wife, Bernadette, campaigned at a rally for Nicolas. According to rumor, she was only persuaded to attend Nicolas' inauguration on the urging of her two daughters and flew in from London for the occasion at the last minute, wearing a casual outfit that one friend called her "escape outfit." Sarkozy made a brief appearance at the G8 summit in June 2007, and then left, citing an important appointment in Paris, which left her husband as the only head of state at the dinner without a spouse. In August 2007 while visiting a resort in Wolfeboro, New Hampshire with her husband she bowed out at the last minute from a casual scheduled lunch with George W. Bush and Laura Bush, saying that she and her children had throat illnesses.
suggests to me that even if they were 'technically' together, in practice they were more or less seperated. As such, I'm still not convinced the Cecilia Affair is going to change much since whatever influence she had she may still have. Perhaps it's true she only has influence because Nicholas was desperate to win her back but I see no evidence in the article or here for that matter to convince me otherwise. In reality, no one other then those involved really know what's going on behind the scenes, all the rest is speculation. In any case, I think the Cécilia and/or Nicholas article needs to have this information. It's no use telling us here, the reader needs to know upon reading the article why they should care. Nil Einne12:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The move of the Acropolis marbles to the New Acropolis Museum after 25 centuries (see below on Oct 15th). I don't want to be a pest, but I don't know how this works. I saw a couple of reminders for other news below.NikoSilver19:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I hate outlining my reasoning why I don't post items, since I always appear like an ass, but I have the feeling that you'll continue posting every day. I know that the Acropolis is old. I know from the article that big stone things from the old thing are being moved the distance of a short walk. I don't know why this is ITN-worthy. I believe I suggested the movement of the Obelisk of Axum, way back when, but that had a clear international issue surrounding it. Someone below seems to insinuate that there is a related controversy, but the articles imply that someone said, "Let's move these old rocks under some cover" and everyone said, "OK". Maybe I'm a cultural philistine here, but I don't see the international interest, nevertheless significance. - BanyanTree23:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
lol, I'd continue posting for another 2,500 years if I didn't receive any negative reply! (kindly advise in my talk how I should treat "seemingly endorsed non-insertion"). My rationale for posting this here was that those 400 meters are mostly vertical, and you can't walk them (unless you are a climber). Second, that those things never left the rock for so long. Third, that the Acropolis is a symbol for democracy and should concern all of us (well, as a symbol of the western civilization, I mean). Fourth, that the Greek politicians found the opportunity to raise an issue for the Elgin marbles (again), as cited in the bolded article. Fifth, that all major international media covered it (well, I don't know about their first page but, still, all of them did). Sixth, that the Acropolis Museum is considered one of the most important museums in the world (see article) and now it's being moved. And seventh, that I found this particular kind of classical, cultural, democratic, ancient, quasi-controversial news to be very suitable for an encyclopedia. I may be wrong, of course, but at least I wanted to present my rationale. I'm sure that if the Pyramids or the Stonehenge were moved we wouldn't give it a second thought, yet the Acropolis is arguably much more important. In any case, I may be seeing things from a very narrow Greek viewpoint, so feel free to disagree. (yes, I can be convinced and, no, I certainly won't call anyone a philistine although I still feel I'm being a pest) NikoSilver23:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Below I supported this because I was under the mistaken impression that it involved the Elgin marbles. Since that isn't the case I have to switch and oppose this. While no one doubts that the Parthenon is an important piece of architecture and history I don't think that otherwise non-notable pieces being moved to a museum really meets the threshold of notability. EtTuMercader
Oppose- Professional Lacrosse isn't really a significant sport. The League in question has only been in existence for 6 years and only has 10 teams. Though its certainly a quickly growing high school sport I don't think that the national league is significant enough to merit ITN. EtTuMercader
Support- This has been a controversy for nearly 200 years now, and the Elgin Marbles article is a pretty good one. I think it's worth an ITN for the conclusion of this long-running dispute.
Ummm, sorry, but as much as I'd want to, the Elgin marbles stay put in the British museum for now (although the New Acropolis Museum was used as a very serious reason for them to return). It's the rest of the statues and artifacts that are moved there, leaving the "Sacred rock" for the first time in 2,500 years. You see, Elgin sufficed in wrecking only half the place down... (In case nobody noticed, I'm Greek :-) )NikoSilver20:00, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it needs a Commons admin on OTRS who subscribes to the permissions queue. (List here) That pic is so awesome that it totally needs to go up once its sourcing is sorted out. - BanyanTree10:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Funny how we note the literature winner was British, but not note the economics winners were American. I smell anti-Americanism (or pro-Europeanism, considering airbus is also listed) SashaCall(Sign!)/(Talk!)16:47, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about updating the picture with something more current than a 10 year old picture of the former US Vice President? --Camptown07:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
About the 17th Party Congress, this is the headline on every major newspaper in the world today, as well as all major news websites, while the dam story does not appear very prominently anywhere. If it is not up on iTN today then it should be when the new Politburo Standing Committee is named. I am in favour of dropping of the dam story though. Colipon+(T) 13:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think just having another meeting convened as scheduled is enough for ITN. I'd wait till there is some big announcements. Election of a new Politburo Committee would be a good thing to mention on the oneliner on ITN. --PFHLai22:32, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
From a purely organizational standpoint, having two China items side by side is to be avoided. Would people approve dropping the dam story so this can go up? Also, we still need a suggested hook. - BanyanTree03:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The I-35W bridge collapse was mentioned here... Also, this is currently most viewed story at CNN. Is there any other reason why this should not be on the page? --Rschen7754 (TC) 19:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I-35W received international coverage (beyond CNN, an American news outlet). Is this being covered widely or affecting huge numbers of people? • Lawrence Cohen22:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This affects both of the northbound routes into Los Angeles... I would assume so. The Chicago and New York papers have picked up the news. --Rschen7754 (TC) 22:53, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A burning highway doesn't seem to be on the scale of the recent news, like Nobel prize awards and 4,000,000 people being displaced because of ecological armageddon... • Lawrence Cohen23:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd imagine because that was a large disaster, with many people killed, and initial speculation that it was possibly a terrorist attack. Major disasters are Big News. A tunnel fire closing down a lone highway in one part of the United States, not so much, as I see it, unfortunately. The story has to have at least significant international interest, at the least, to people in all the English-speaking nations. Would Australians, Irish, and Indians be worried about L.A. traffic being even more backed up? • Lawrence Cohen23:08, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. Apparently "most viewed article" at BBC doesn't count? </sarcasm> And this is not just a lone highway. The closure of the main artery into Los Angeles from the north will disrupt the economy of the second-largest city in the U.S. --Rschen7754 (TC) 23:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't the I-35W bridge collapse feel far too local? O2 (息 • 吹) 23:14, 13 October 2007 (GMT)
Everything on ITN is subjective, isn't it? People died in the bridge collapse, it had days of international news coverage, it was speculated to be a terrorist attacks. Disasters are routinely included on ITN. Is a tunnel fire that stops traffic lightly affecting a local economy (it's Saturday, in the United States, not a business day), an internationally-significant event people will be talking and reporting on 72 hours from now? • Lawrence Cohen23:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
[ec] I-5 doesn't just serve a local economy. It is the main Interstate Highway on the west coast, which serves a whole lot of cities along that corridor. Even more than that, it is a border-to-border highway as well, so not only it is tampering with LA and the whole west coast's economy, but it will also be disrupting Mexico-U.S.-Canada trade. O2 (息 • 吹) 23:23, 13 October 2007 (GMT)
This is just from a UK perspective, but I wondered what was going on when I logged on and saw this, because I couldn't find it on the BBC until I checked the Americas section, and even then I only managed to find the pictures. RHB - Talk00:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This story appeared in France, Canada, and Australia too… O2 (息 • 吹) 00:43, 14 October 2007 (GMT)
There was never anything but pictures - the BBC ran an "in pictures" item with Associated Press photographs, but don't seem to have decided to produce an actual news story on it. Shimgray | talk | 02:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, my feeling is also that this is does not have the historical and international significance to qualify for ITN. Thue | talk07:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is ITN class news IMO, but as far as I can see this news is only covered in the article by a single line. The article has to be updated for it to be put into ITN. It would be nice if there were a subsection we could link to. Thue | talk09:27, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do you mean "an additional 4 million people"? Millions of people have already been relocated to make way for the dams for the past 10 years. Just moving people out of there is hardly news at all, unless you have never heard of this project. --74.13.129.5205:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, these are 4m people in addition to the already planned/moved 1.3m people(!). I see somebody already improved the formulation on the front page. Thue | talk10:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't feel that either are good enough quality. The sad one because he is looking sad, and the happy one is technically poor. Thue | talk16:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That was my original pick too, but I hesitated because we're not allowed to widen it a bit (having gained a few pounds since). :-) NikoSilver17:33, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think photoshopping on a few pounds would be original research. :) I figured it would be the best one since he's smiling, it is a simple photo, and it looks iconic. • Lawrence Cohen17:36, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely a worthy candidate; however, I'm not sure whether the wording is sufficiently clear. What's happened so far is that a House committee has voted to let a bill identifying the Armenian genocide go before the full House for a vote. I'm worried that this wording suggests that the bill has been voted on by the full House. How about this: "Turkey recalls its ambassador to the United States, after the United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs passes a resolution describing the deaths of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide." It's a bit wordy, but accuracy is important, especially in a touchy subject like this. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's a bit wordy, but it's a very good wording nonetheless: to the point, accurate and neutral. It's long, but not excessively long. So I don't see a problem there. The subject is highly notable and relevant, because of the role of the Armenian Genocide in Turkey's foreign relations in general (see the negotiations with the EU, for instance), and because of the possible repercussions of this resolution for the relations between the US and Turkey. AecisBrievenbus19:53, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And right after I added it I realized that I could condense "United States House Committee on Foreign Affairs" to "U.S. House Committee...", since "United States" was already mentioned in the item. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, if it's due to my english skills, but current wording sounds as if Turkey is cutting (or at least impending to cut) its diplomatic relations with US. However, according to Turkish Newspapers, the ambassador is called to Turkey just for consolation and setting up a new roadplan for all this Armenian Genocide resolution issue (and actually he's still in US, he'll be on his way on Monday. So it's not as if he's been immideatly called back) Kerem Özcan21:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It could do with a re-write to clarify the function of the preposition. I know that "Ambassador to the United States" is a job title, but it could read as if this man is being ordered to return to the United States. Kevin McE23:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, without mentioning the age thing. How should we word that? "British writer Doris Lessing becomes the oldest person in history to win the Nobel Prize in Literature"? AecisBrievenbus11:34, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
At least 25 killed in Brazil double collision. A truck coming down a hill plowed into rescue workers and gawkers at the site of an earlier collision -- a double accident that killed least 25 people and injured 87, police said Wednesday. (CNN)
While this is obviously news, this is not encyclopedic news, I'm afraid. ITN is not a news ticker. This does not have an international interest, and does not seem to have an updated Wikipedia article. AecisBrievenbus18:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I support this item going on ITN, but am a little concerned that the current blurb mentions only two of the three crew. Normally we would highlight the spaceflight, Soyuz TMA-11, but that article is less well developed than the two crew memebers. Perhaps we could work the commander, Yuri Malenchenko, into the blurb.-gadfium18:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Inviting criticism of being both anti-women and anti-marriage, I've reworded with only Shukor until the Shoyuz article can serve as the bolded item. If that doesn't happen, I suggest focusing on Whitson once she takes actual command of the ISS. Thanks, BanyanTree22:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is an immediate issue of the nature of the update and what I believe is a problem with the wording of the hook. Scanning for the update, I found "The ACLU filed a petition for certiorari at the U.S. Supreme Court, but it was denied" as the last bullet point. However, after reading the rest of the bullet points, it is not immediately clear that the "appeal the recent dismissal" is the same as this "certiorari" thing, which is a term I didn't know until I looked it up to confirm that they were one and the same. Given that information is organized intro chronological bullet points, rather than into topic narratives, I found this quite confusing. Once I figured out what is going on, I saw a flaw in the hook, which, as written now, suggests that Mr. El-Masri was appealing to be released and the Supreme Court denied this (or at least that seemed the most likely reading on first look). "The United States Supreme Court refuses an appeal against the dismissal, on the grounds of national security, of a lawsuit filed by Khalid El-Masri, who was taken to a secret prison in Afghanistan and allegedly tortured in a case of mistaken identity" seems to state it correctly, but is perhaps afflicted with overly torturous wording. That said, I found the flow of information in the relevant section of Khalid El-Masri so confusing that I won't support this item until the article section is reorganized. On a related topic, in an apparent first, a U.S. judge has just blocked the transfer of Lufti Bin Ali on the grounds of his fear of torture (BBC) if some energetic editor wants to update for an ITN 1-2 punch for a "War on Terror detention" hook. - BanyanTree08:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure about this one. While the event may be of interest, the article written as bullet points isn't the best and may be lacking some of the information about the background of the case (about the state secrets provisions and stuff). Also, on first glance, it appeared to lack the necessary updates as all I learnt from it was what I learnt in the headline, that the Supreme Court denied his request. However it appears the only update that can be added is that it was without comment which I added. Since it was without comment I don't think there is much more to add. Arguably this means it should not be on ITN since even if the event was fairly significant, it's not going to have a big effect on the article as there's nothing to say i.e. we won't be highliting a significant update to the article. On the other hand, the Nobel Prizes don't tend to cause significant updates either Nil Einne09:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that this apparently undecided title is the name given to the award, but when rendered in a headline, it looks like the good folk in Oslo decided to give them an award, but couldn't be bothered to decide what it is for. Maybe we could rewrite it as ...are awarded a Nobel prize for development...: the nature of the development establishes that we are talking about medical/physiological research. Kevin McE22:03, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it looks a little odd, but the fact that it is wikilinked as a single item does tend to group it together and communicate that it is really the name of the award. Thue | talk23:06, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also I think it will be confusing if we have 3 or 4 different prizes without specifying what they're for. Oh and a minor nitpick, the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine Laureates (as with all the Nobel Prizes bar the Peace Prize) is chosen by a committee selected by a Swedish organisation and is awarded in Stockholm. Oslo doesn't come into the equation Nil Einne11:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
October 7
Its a shame, and about time the "2007 Lebanon conflict" on the front page, listed as an "Ongoing conflict" has been hearing my outcry since the conflict ended! To who ever who has authority, and to who ever follows these things, I assure you that the Conflict finished over a month ago!! And the "Current" news on this Site is hard coded as print.--Yozef00:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would tend not to support this. IMO we should only post the absolute top sport events in ITN, and this doesn't qualify. (I posted the recent marathon world record and new chess champion items, so I don't categorically oppose all sport items) Thue | talk21:49, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If I recall the marathon you posted was a world record set at a minor marathon. This is a death, a photo finish, hundreds of heat-related hospitalizations, and two come from behind sprint finishes at one of the 5 major marathons. If the minor marathon you posted is a top sports event then this is.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 22:12, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The news there was not the marathon itself, but the fact that Gebreselassie broke the world record. Where he did that doesn't matter. Regarding the Berlin Marathon, it is one of the largest marathons in the world, with London, Boston, New York and Chicago: together they form the World Marathon Majors. And finally, while a death at a marathon is news, I'm not sure it's encyclopedic enough for ITN. AecisBrievenbus22:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know that what I'm about to say may sound very cruel, but from what I gather in the media, only the recreational marathon (for amateurs) was cancelled, not the competitive marathon for professional athletes. If the latter had been the case, it might have been something for ITN. I'm not sure it's suitable now. AecisBrievenbus22:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. ITN items should be posted for the date on the event hook, so this is currently posted as an October 4th event. I've changed "sacked" for "fired" as a mainly British-ism. Thanks for the update, BanyanTree21:08, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Firing is something that happens to guns: if admins are looking for a more encyclopaedic way of saying that the minister was dismissed, can I suggest dismised/dismissal. Kevin McE23:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Expedition 360 is well-sourced and updated, and the item is surely one of international significance, and so I support notwithstanding what might be seen as the shortishness of the article, although I think we'd also do well to link circumnavigation and perhaps to add "Briton" ahead of Lewis's name; we often, and properly, IMHO, append demonyms in items like this. Joe18:24, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was ready to add this, but then I saw at Circumnavigation#Human-powered that there's apparently some dispute over whether he's really the first to do it, or whether it really counts (at least according to the definition used by Guinness, if that matters). I think that the wording should allow for this ambiguity. Suggestions? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:13, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support adding this, with a slight change to the wording ("...and announces her retirement from track and field" would be better). I've uploaded a crop of an image from Commons we could use if we want (although I suppose she won't be looking so happy now...). —Josiah Rowe (talk •contribs) 04:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose adding this: MJ has not been at the top of the sport for some years, nor is she the current holder of any title; the BALCO investigation is ongoing and will spawn many more potential headlines; and this comes very close to the sort of celebrity culture news that ITN has done an admirable job of avoiding thus far. If, however, it is included, it should be re-phrased, as ITN should avoid vocabulary specific to any one variant of English, and track and field is not used outside American English. Kevin McE09:21, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The big news is not that she has lied to federal investigators, the big news is that she appears to have admitted using doping in the run-up to the 2000 Summer Olympics. At these Olympics, she won three gold medals (100m, 200m, 4x400m) and two bronze medals (4x100m, long jump). The notability of the athlete, the event and the medals she won there make this highly fitting for ITN, imo. I agree with Kevin about the use of the term track and field, Wikipedia uses the term athletics for the sport. AecisBrievenbus11:07, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Peter Ueberroth, the head of the United States Olympic Committee, has told Marion Jones to return the medals she has won in the 2000 Olympics. If she is indeed stripped of her titles, this would be in the same category as Floyd Landis, who was stripped of the 2006 Tour victory for the use of doping. AecisBrievenbus11:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support if she either returns the medals or the IOC/IAAF strips her of the medals. If either of those doesn't happen, don't add it. --HowardtheDuck05:36, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
According to several media reports, Jones has returned all Sydney 2000 medals (3 gold, 2 bronze). I can't find any confirmation of this on the main news sources (BBC, CNN, etc) yet, so I think it's better to wait. But if this is indeed confirmed, I see no reason not to add this item to ITN. AecisBrievenbus21:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It has been confirmed by the US ADA that she's handed them back now and has been retroactively disqualified. (BBC), though I can't find any other sources. Anyway, support from me as this could well be as damaging to athletics as Vinokourov/Landis were to cycling. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 00:11, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although it is not final yet, a consortium of Royal Bank of Scotland, Banco Santander and Fortis is set to buy ABN Amro, following the withdrawal of the bid of Barclays Bank. This withdrawal appears to put an end a month-long legal and corporate fight over the takeover of one of Europe's largest and oldest banks. Iff the deal is finalised (which is expected around October 11), should this be put on ITN? Aec·is·awaytalk13:33, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know whether we can craft a headline that incorporates both this and the North's recent pledge to end their nuclear programs at the six-party talks; the article on the six-party talks doesn't seem to have been updated with the latest news, though (see [10]). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:11, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reason not to put this up. This is major news, which in turn is going to lead to more major news. Much more important then anything else on the template right now. --Plasma Twa 221:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Has there been any current event with which the article can be updated and an ITN hook formed? ITN usually avoids "a process is ongoing"-type hooks. - BanyanTree20:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is the congressional investigation into whether a Bush appointee interfered with investigations into Blackwater. Add in that all this is coming to light right as Blackwater's CEO Erik Prince is pulled in front of the Senate yestertday for the recent shootings... the probe and US Attorney's investigation is the first government action 'against' Blackwater in light of the storm of recent activity and press for them, so it seemed like the better thing to nominate than the recent shootings, which are already not completely current news. • Lawrence Cohen20:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Would this be better? It's more all-encompassing for all their current news:
Speaking for myself, something along the lines of "Erik Prince, owner of Blackwater USA, testifies before the US Senate as part investigations into recent shootings in Baghdad and allegations of arms smuggling to the Kurdistan Workers Party" would appear to be detailed enough. That said, it appears that Erik Prince doesn't have the appropriate updates. (It's always something on ITN/C, isn't it?) Alternatively, you could simply add a cited sentence about the testimony to the Blackwater USA article and make that the bolded item. Congressional testimony doesn't normally make it into ITN, but I think there is sufficient 'international interest' here. BanyanTree22:13, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Er, double check the Erik Prince page again? It's been under pretty heavy reworking and expansion today over his testimony. Alternately, as Blackwater USA is the central piece of it, we could always just bold that? Or, your version, above, is pretty darn good. I like it. • Lawrence Cohen22:32, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In particular, I noticed that the smuggling is not mentioned at all in Erik Prince except as a 'see also.' The bolded article should have at least a basic introduction to all of the topics introduced in the hook, and definitely not expect the reader to go looking for a relevant click-through. Similarly, Blackwater USA doesn't have any mention of the congressional testimony. No article on Wikipedia currently supports either of the hooks above, which is why I offered suggestions for updates above. - BanyanTree22:51, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is this broad enough (relevant globally) to qualify for ITN? Surely someone just testifying before the US Congress is not ITN-worthy. I oppose this inclusion, and would propose holding off on an ITN item until something actionable has taken place, (i.e., "The Senate has found Blackwater USA performed wrong/didn't perform innappropriately." Terrible wording, but you get the gist.) Mahalo. --Ali'i17:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Blackwater itself might be of international interests (as would the shootings recently), however, look at the way the item is phrased and bolded. Prince tesitfying does not qualify. Thing is, big whoop. People testify before Congress all the time. It is only when Congress rules on something (such as if they judged that Blackwater acted inapporpriately, and sanctioned them) does it really qualify as significant. I wouldn't have an issue with something like, "Private security firm Blackwater USA is expelled from Iraq by the Iraqi Prime Minister", (or Parliament, whichever). That is something actually notable happening. It is the actual testifying that fails to pass muster in my glorious opinion. Mahalo. --Ali'i20:19, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hm. The problem is that al-Maliki called for Blackwater's expulsion some time ago; however, the investigation into the shootings is ongoing. Besides the Congressional testimony, the only recent development is the announcement that the FBI would be taking over the investigation into the incident. Would that work any better? Something like "The Federal Bureau of Investigation announces that it will be leading the investigation into a Baghdad shooting incident involving employees of Blackwater USA." Would that be better? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:36, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be worried about excluding the arms smuggling issue, as that is international in scope (Iraq, US, Turkey). The Prince testimony was a good lead/cornerstone into the sentence on what was happening, I'd thought. • Lawrence Cohen17:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
ITN has never done "election results are being counted", "the World Cup final halftime score is", "a decision will be announced" or any other sort of ongoing-process items. I believe the item, as currently worded, should simply be removed. - BanyanTree09:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Which I've gone ahead and done. If wording that links the hook to a specific event cannot be agreed upon, it should not be on ITN. - BanyanTree12:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This definitely should be added. Criteria five is the one normally used to discourage obituaries, but it makes a specific exemption for when "the deceased was in a high ranking office of power at the time of death". If Prime Minister doesn't qualify as a "high ranking office of power", I don't know what does.--Fyre2387(talk • contribs)15:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this would meet the criteria, if confirmed; however, there are still conflicting reports about whether he's dead or not. We should wait until the uncertainty is resolved. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Different sources give different number of wounded and killed Iraqis, so maybe we should leave that information out, and instead mention that one BOR officer was also killed. Mieciu K13:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Edward Pietrzyk article has very little information on the bombing. A couple lines on the event and why anyone would bother trying to assassinate him in particular would be a sufficient update. The article would also have to include any information in the hook, such as the BOR officer and civilian deaths, which it currently does not. - BanyanTree20:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure these are the final exit polls, but I was talking about the official results of the elections. I think it's best to wait for that. After all, Wikipedia is not a news ticker and we don't have a deadline to meet. Waiting is what we did with the last elections (Greece), and IIRC we did it with just about every election before that as well. AecisBrievenbus00:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
With 70 percent counted, Timoshenko's bloc and Yushchenko's Our Ukraine party had 48 percent of the vote. Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych's party and his Communist and Socialist allies had 36.8 percent. That sounds pretty invincible... --Camptown13:25, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If the vote counting is going this fast, we should be at 90 to 95 percent tonight. I think that would be a better indication of the final result. But I would suggest waiting until we have 100% of the results, as that will be a better indication (obviously) of the final result. AecisBrievenbus13:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We'd better wait as the vote counting has now - with 91.59% votes counted - entered a crucial stage with the Socialist Party only 0.01% (!) from Parliament. --Camptown19:37, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Another very important thing to keep in mind, when putting this up, is the fact that as it stands, Yanukovych's party appears to be winning a plurality in parliament. The blocs of Yushchenko and Tymoshenko have a higher combined total, but BBC reports tonight that "their slim lead has diminished as late votes come in, while Mr Yanukovych has had steady gains." So nothing is certain atm, let's not be too hasty. AecisBrievenbus00:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If such a headline is used on MainPage, please make sure there is a good paragraph in the article about the delay and the investigation. --PFHLai15:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: With 99% of votes counted, this seems indeed to be the final result. This hook also leaves open for the possibility that Tymoshenko and Yushenko might not be cabable of forming a working government coalition... --Camptown20:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Should the headline also reflect the fact that Yanukovich's party had more votes than either Tymoshenko's or Yushenko's? BBC News is presenting the election as having produced "no clear winner". —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but the two organge parties have a majority now (the biggest party may not necessraily be the winner in a system with proportional representation). We can wait for week and months till a government is formed. This is like ignoring a U.S. presidential election just because some have contested the result. And that's why this item should be posted now. --Camptown05:21, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Should be posted now. If we say that the two parties in question at least represented the Orange Revolution, there is no room for speculations about who will form government with whom, and who will be the next Ukrainian PM and if some nutcases challenge the outcome in a court of law. The election is already recognized by the OSCE as fair, and as such quite unique in the post Soviet countries (the Baltic states exculded). The reference to the Orange Revolution is relevant, as the two party colations also represented the opposition. Bondkaka09:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Image of the annoucement of FIFA. Felipe C.S ( talk ) 15:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
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