Talk:Olinde Rodrigues

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This page was listed on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion, and the consensus was to keep: see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Olinde Rodrigues

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Again, this person has been labelled as an Occitan personality. This should be removed in my opinion. What do others think? --Bob 09:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

As you know, because we've discussed it at length, the category has been re-added because it is being discussed, and it was depopulated, disrupting the discussion process. Once a decision has been taken about the category – either a new name or removal – a decision can be made about its suitability here. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Its suitability here should be considered before it is ever added to an article. It is unsuitable here, in fact, it is plain wrong, POV pushing and basic vandalism to place it here. --Bob 16:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Remove him from Category:Occitan people ?

According to the rules in Wikipedia:Categorization of people there is no justification either for Category:Occitan people or Category:Natives of Bordeaux.

By residence

People are sometimes categorized by notable residence, in the form People from Foo (not "Natives of Foo"), regardless of ethnicity, heritage, or nationality. Residential categories should not be used to record people who have never resided in that place. Nationality is reflected by the occupation category (above), not country or county or city of residence. The place of birth is rarely notable.

He spent his adult life in Paris, and there is no evidence that he spoke Occitan or was an Occitan nationalist. Making him an Occitan due to the accident of birth in Bordeaux does not make sense. Shall I go ahead and remove him from both categories? If not please quote the policy that justifies keeping him there. EdJohnston 03:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

In fact a huge number of people are placed in the category of their birth-place. Categories aren't limited to what makes a person notable; perhaps they should be, but this has been argued against and defeated every time it's been raised. (And I suppose that the same could be said about year of birth, place of residence, etc., too, in most cases.) The usual response to the application of a category is that, unless it's factually wrong, there's no harm. Again, I've not always gone along with that, but it's the local custom.

I replaced this category on all those articles from which it had been removed because it needed to be repopulated in order to make discussion of it fair, not because I had any strong view about any of its members. The only stroing view that I have is the rather hysterical depopulation of the category by another editor, who seems to have a strong political view on the matter. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Inaccurate statement about enrolling Ecole polytechnique ?

It is stated in the article that "Jews were prohibited from enrolling at the École Polytechnique, the most prestigious school in Paris, and it is still unknown how he learned his advanced mathematics". This statement seems doubtful to me. French Revolution emancipated the jews and they became equal citizens in 1791. All discriminations based on the religion (protestantism or Judaism ) were severely banished. Could the original author please precise his sources ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BahramH (talk • contribs) 15:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The most scholarly book about Rodrigues that I could locate is the 2005 work by Altmann and Ortiz. It seems that nobody knows for sure how Rodrigues obtained his doctorate (what institution). Note that Altmann has published more than once about this mathematician, and he revised his views along the way. He believes that Rodrigues came from a family descended from Spanish Jews, contrary to what the article says now. I don't have Altmann's book in the house but I can get back to it in the library if there is a question. EdJohnston (talk) 22:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I have added the date of his doctorate from the University of Paris, and the date of publication of his thesis, based on Altmann and Ortiz (2005). In the section just below, someone says that the text of his thesis is available through Google Books. I'd like to get the URL for that, since I couldn't find it myself. Altmann and Ortiz are quite firm that he was never enrolled at the École Polytechnique, though the first Jew was admitted there in 1798, so that school was perhaps not closed to him after all. (These authors got hold of a complete list of all the students at the Polytechnique and his name was not there). EdJohnston (talk) 04:08, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Now that I looked at Altmann and Ortiz (2005) one more time, I struck out part of my previous comment. Here are the interesting points:

1. Nobody knows for sure how Rodrigues obtained his knowledge of advanced math, whether he took a course of studies somewhere, or if he had a thesis advisor. We do know that University of Paris conferred his docteur ès sciences degree.
2. He definitely was not formally enrolled at the Polytechnique, since he's not on their list of students.
3. He had to give up any prospect of a mathematics teaching position in France after his doctorate, because the Restoration took away some options that Jews had enjoyed under Napoloeon. This is probably how Rodrigues wound up working as an actuary. EdJohnston (talk) 17:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

thesis

The thesis is in two parts "De l'Attraction des sphéroïdes" and "Mouvement de rotation d'un corps de révolution pesant", Paris, june,28 1815 (not 1816 !). published in "Correspondance sur l'école royale polytechnique, à l'usage des élèves de cette école", T3, Paris, 1816, pages 361-385. You can find this book on "google books".Claudeh5-fr (talk) 22:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, please, I would like to find the URL at Google Books. The date June 28, 1815 that you found is when he received the doctorate, according to page 12 of Altmann and Ortiz (2005). At least that's how I interpreted "thèse soutenue devant la Faculté de Science de Paris par M. Rodrigues,... le 28 juin, 1815." Altmann and Ortiz assert that the actual publication of the thesis was in January 1816. EdJohnston (talk) 04:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

i have for you three links:

1. http://jubil.upmc.fr/sdx/pl/toc.xsp?id=TH_000165_001&fmt=upmc&idtoc=TH_000165_001-pleadetoc&base=fa the programm of the second thesis (only talk ?)
2. http://gallica2.bnf.fr/Search?ArianeWireIndex=index&q=olinde+rodrigues+spheroides&p=1&lang=fr the thesis is on the top
3. http://books.google.fr/books?id=m-cNAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:00Wf_7TYEJH7YRV08oB Correspondance sur l'école royale polytechnique, à l'usage des élèves de cette école", T3, Paris, 1816, pages 361-385

i think: 1816 is only the date of publication in "Correspondance sur l'école royale polytechnique" but the soutenance is of june, 28 1815 and the text, before.Claudeh5-fr (talk) 08:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Spanish origin

One of the footnotes states that "The family is often said to have been of Spanish origin, but the spelling of the family name rather suggests Portuguese descent (as indeed asserted by the 'Enciclopedia Universal Illustrada Espasa-Calpe')". In fact, Altmann's article withdraws this claim, based on more recent sources. The family is spanish, and the "enciclopedia" is in error. Tkuvho (talk) 09:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

But, in fact, it is well known that Rodrigues with "S" is of Portuguese origin and Rodriguez with "Z" is of Spanish origin (See Portuguese names article).

Saint Simonianism writing

I'd like to know more about his writing, that followed his friend Saint-Simon's death, on social reform. This is not followed in the section on Saint-Simon either. ie his relationship with Barthélemy_Prosper_Enfantin and I like to know what he thought of Enfantin's radicalism. Szczels (talk) 10:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)