Template talk:MBTABus

Expand template to include link to mbta.com bus info?

See also: User_talk:Pi.1415926535 § Where_was_.7B.7Btl:MBTABus.7D.7D_discussed.3F, and Talk:List_of_MBTA_bus_routes § Discussion_from_Template_Talk:MBTABus

It would be useful to the reader, if this template included a link to the bus route information and schedule on mbta.com. Even more so, as not all the routes have articles here on Wikipedia.

It might be useful to have an optional second parameter, if text about the route wanted to go between the WikiLink and the http://mbta.com link.

The later link could be [http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/bus/routes/?route={{{1}}} ^{(bus info on mbta.com)}] so it's clear to the reader what the link is about. Lentower (talk) 18:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I like the sentiment, but I don't think an external link in that place is appropriate. ELs are supposed to be avoided in the text of articles. Additionally, it would be a rather clunky link in a paragraph in an article. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:15, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Could you link to the EL guidline(s) you're referring to? My understanding is different. And actual practice varies alot. Lentower (talk) 16:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll look more later when I've got time, but WP:ELPOINTS number 2 is the basics. I don't think they need to be referenced individually - the station pages on the MBTA site list bus routes that serve the station. Maybe at most, have one big cite for the giant map that shows everything. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:27, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Having the link to each bus schedule page, where each bus is listed is very useful to readers who want that info. It saves them a lot of clicking and web searching.

Might be sufficient to just have these links into mbta.com on List of MBTA bus routes since all routes are there, and your anchor proposal with the template proposal here would let readers be a click away from the click into mbta.com. Lentower (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

How about pushing the external link into the /* References */ section:
<ref>http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/bus/routes/?route={{{1}}}</ref>? The Reflinks tool could be run afterwards. Lentower (talk) 15:32, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Idea: change the full route list page to a wikitable with anchors, then create redirects for all currently redlinked bus routes. ELs to bus pages on MBTA would be okay in such a table - moreso, I believe, than in an article. The table would allow cross-referencing to old streetcar lines, citing ridership, maybe even connections to other routes. Then every bus route has a valid link, which effectively acts as a citation (via the link in the table) and everything would be shiny. I'll flesh this out more when I get back, but thoughts?Pi.1415926535 (talk) 19:36, 9 June 2012 (UTC}

This is a good way to do this. Are there any others?

One problem is that the routes that already have entries in articles, should be linked to, not these anchors in List of MBTA bus routes. One way to deal with this is to have a redirect page for each route.

Where routes are in articles, those entries should link to the anchors in List of MBTA bus routes.

Makes sense to also merge these articles into the master list: Routes in East Boston, Chelsea, and Revere, Routes in Melrose, Reading, Stoneham, and Wakefield, MBTA bus routes in North Shore, Massachusetts, and Routes in South Boston. Nothing very encyclopedic about those routes. These three are encyclopedic: Crosstown routes, Key routes, Trackless trolleys. Lentower (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, we'll need redirects for every route. But some already exist, and the others are just a copy-paste job - I can do that in an evening. I've got Haymarket, the commuter rail station list, and maybe something else on my high-priority list, but bug me every few days and I'll get started on the bus routes list soon. Unfortunately, that has to be turned into a wikitable in one epic editing session. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Here's a basic idea of what I'm planning on. I just finished changing 130+ references (which I replaced with one) into links to the MBTA site. Take a look: List of MBTA Commuter Rail stations Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Great job. Much nicer for the user to have one unique name for all those links. I changed the title of the last column.

How does one add anchors? Lentower (talk) 11:11, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Can the table be made sortable here on the English Wikipedia? E.g. a reader might want to see all the stations in a Fare Zone, or a City. Lentower (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC) The table is sortable. The browser I was using doesn't have the right Javascript support. Lentower (talk) 02:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Can the table be made collapsible here on the English Wikipedia? E.g. a reader might want to see what is after the table, without doing all the scrolling down, or back to the TOC. Lentower (talk) 11:11, 14 June 2012 (UTC)) Tables can be made collapsible for those broswers that support Javascript in the right way. Lentower (talk) 02:32, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

For the bus list, a See also column would let the list link to the info in other articles on those routes. Lentower (talk) 11:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Be encyclopedic to add a section for defunct bus routes. Note Oak_Grove (MBTA_station)#Defunct bus lines. Lentower (talk) 13:37, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look, but that may be difficult. Take a look at the end-all guide to MBTA history - there are a lot of defunct routes that changed routes multiple times. Additionally, there are some old numbers that have been reused. In any case, it'll be a bit lower priority than the current routes. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 16:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Implementation

I've started actually converting the page, beginning with the 500 routes which I used as a test subject. I've started creating redirects - see, for example, 502 (MBTA bus). Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:20, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I've converted everything except for the 1-202 routes. I created redirects for all except the 400s routes. (Those will get redirects when I take the MBTA bus routes in North Shore, Massachusetts page to AfD.) Pi.1415926535 (talk) 01:51, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Good. You didn't provide a column for See also links to other wiki articles. Why? Links to Wiki articles are suppose to take precedence over external links, and it be good to have both here. Ah! If there is one, the wikilink in the first column. Lentower (talk) 03:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC) Lentower (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You could try a Prod before the AfD. Takes less editor and admin resources. Lentower (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Will you also Prod/AfD or MergeTo these articles too: MBTA bus routes in East Boston, Chelsea, and Revere, MBTA bus routes in Melrose, Reading, Stoneham, and Wakefield, and MBTA bus routes in South Boston? Lentower (talk) 13:36, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I've been thinking about them, and I'm not sure. The North Shore list has no inherent importance - these are pretty much all recent routes. The Southie, Eastie/Chelsea/Revere, and Melrose et al routes have a historical grouping to them, because they're all from the trolley lines that date to the 1880s. Ideally, each route goes one of two ways - either there's enough history during the trolley years (like 86 (MBTA bus)) to have its own article, or there isn't and it gets redirected to the main list. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

On second look, the Eastie routes page is simply awful, and it's probably not worthwhile to keep. The whole system of bus and streetcar pages needs a makeover - right now it's a mishmash of different systems. I think the solution I'll pursue is, as above, make each route go one of two ways. Either it gets reduced to a line in the bus routes article (plus text in the article of the relevant street railway company), or it gets its own page. The only exceptions should be the pages for Silver Line, Crosstown, Key Routes, and Trolleybuses - those are official groups of routes that belong on their own page. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Maybe there should be one page History of MBTA Bus Routes? Lentower (talk) 03:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps. However, it would have to be focused on the system as a whole coming from streetcars and trackless trolleys. Having a paragraph about every route would be massively long and probably pointless. The system history I linked above already has that information in a worthier form than a wikipedia article.

 Done 21,341 characters of added wikitext and 123 new redirects later, I'm more or less done. The entire bus list is converted to anchored wikitables, and most routes have a redirect to the list or the appropriate article. I've got some fixes to do, mostly with redirects for the 400 routes, but it's in good shape. The MBTABus template can and should now be used for all current routes. I'll be copying this discussion to Talk:List of MBTA bus routes where any further discussion of old routes and other articles belongs. Cheers! Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:31, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Conditional inclusion of Wikilinks?

Does the template scripting language have a test for the existence of an article? This would allow the template to generate a link, if the article is there. Lentower (talk) 15:32, 9 June 2012 (UTC)